Now that I’m “retired” I have time to get back into my genealogy. My loyal readers (I do have loyal readers, right?) know the problems I’ve encountered researching my Campbell line. I have spent untold dollars on DNA tests for all three aspects for using DNA with genealogy (as in not for medical reasons). While I have found many cousins on my mother’s side, and on my paternal grandmother’s side, not many Campbell’s. My joke is that my male Campbell cousins won’t do a DNA test for fear of being tied to a cattle raid in the 1500’s! Not true of course, but I find it funny.
So let’s take a look at the typical naming conventions used in Scotland over time.
According to “The Scottish Onomastic Child-naming Pattern,” by John
Barrett Robb, another naming system called the “ancestral pattern,”
generally went as follows:
The first son was named for his father’s father.
The second son was named for his mother’s father.
The third son was named for his father’s father’s father.
The fourth son was named for his mother’s mother’s father.
The fifth son was named for his father’s mother’s father.
The sixth son was named for his mother’s father’s father.
The seventh through tenth sons were named for their father’s four great-grandfathers.
The eleventh through fourteenth sons were named for their mother’s four great-grandfathers.
The first daughter was named for her mother’s mother.
The second daughter was named for her father’s mother.
The third daughter was named for her mother’s father’s mother.
The fourth daughter was named for her father’s father’s mother.
The fifth daughter was named for her mother’s mother’s mother.
The sixth daughter was named for her father’s mother’s mother.
The seventh through tenth daughters were named for their mother’s four great-grandmothers.
The eleventh through fourteenth daughters were named for their father’s four great-grandmothers.
First, we’ll generally ignore the “eleventh though fourteenth” parts. Not only is that way too many children, I don’t have any families on the Campbell side with more than 9 offspring. Still, 12 kids running around the house? No thanks! Of course that does mean more farm hands are available.
A simpler version is like this.
The Scottish, for the most part, had a naming pattern which can be seen in many families. The pattern generally went as follows:
The first son was named after the father’s father.
My one and only male Campbell DNA match is with my my 3rd great grandfather’s generation, James Richard Campbell Jr. My cousin’s line stems from James Jr’s. brother Richard Campbell. I was very lucky finding my cousin as he had paperwork from the area of Pennsylvania that our family lived in the 1790’s or so. With paperwork to back up the DNA match I knew that I had a very reliable match.
But the names I have are not following the pattern I mentioned earlier. Since I had a Junior, it is reasonable to assume that his father would be a Senior. Good to go there?
Let’s follow the naming pattern starting with my grandfather, Herbert. As the first male child, he should have been named for his paternal grandfather. But he wasn’t. I can find no other Herbert’s in earlier generations.
Next we have Herbert’s father (my great grandfather), Samuel. Following tradition, my father should have been named Samuel. He wasn’t (Donald). And Samuel, being the third male child should have been named for his father’s father’s father (his great grandfather). Nope, he was James Sr. Again, the James Sr. is somewhat speculative. I can only assume that I have the “Senior” correct since, I know that his son was a “Junior”.
The pattern isn’t holding here. Is it due to becoming “Americanized” and the traditions have faded or am I missing children of my earliest ancestors that have come to America? James Jr. is actually the fifth son born to James Sr. That would mean he would have been named for his father’s mother’s father. And that information I do not possess.
James Sr. is where I am currently brick walled. I have a lead for his parents, John Campbell, Jr., and Jean Ralston. Here we go with the Junior again! I have this John Jr. born in Scotland and dying in Pennsylvania. If the naming convention holds true that would make him the third son of a John Sr. Alas, according to what I have found he is the eldest son. I will readily admit that the two Johns are best guesses. Even James Sr. is unverified.
To further ignore the naming, my eldest sister should have been named Dora (mother’s mother), my brother Herbert (father’s father), my elder sister Josephine (father’s mother), and me Talmadge (mother’s father). Not a single one. I cannot find any ancestors with our given names at all!
I didn’t know of this pattern when my sons were born. But in a way we followed it. Son-the-eldest is not named the same as my father but they have the same initials (DSC). Son-the-younger is named for his mother’s father, we just switched the first and middle names.
I had a really cool idea for a post, even had Wifey on board to help me, just to find out my entire premise was wrong… So what’s a ramblin’ blog writer to do?
Well, I guess I could write about genealogy. How I had a cousin (not on the Campbell side, of course) that I had not heard from in many years contact me. Now she did send me the message on a website I very seldom use back in August and I just saw it yesterday. But we’ve had a good conversation via email since then.
I could post about the ongoing home repairs, but all we’ve really done since the last post is hang a few pictures. I did finish painting one set of closet doors. But that’s it. It was while we were going through the many boxes of photos we have to see if we want to put new pictures on the wall that made me go to the genealogy site where I found that message board post. Funny how things tie together like that.
Also there was the little fair we went to Friday night. We all took the girls to see the newest Aladdin movie “under the stars”. I didn’t stay long as my back and legs were acting up in a very bad way. Plus even though there were two beer tents they weren’t selling any beer that night. What a waste.
Maybe I could use how our contracted garbage company (contracted by the county, not us personally), won’t pick up some wood that’s in a garbage can. I realize that when they came by for their usual pick up they thought that it was construction waste. It does look like that. This is wood from some old chairs that son-the-younger broke apart so we could stash them away when the last hurricane was headed our way. But when I called and explained what it was, I was told I had to take it out of the can and “bundle” it. WTF?? They won’t take loose pieces. This is the same company that doesn’t have a claw truck to pick up tree branches and such. We live in a very hurricane prone state, and trees not only get blown down in these storms, folks have to cut them back on a regular basis for safety.
I guess I don’t really have anything to post about after all. So here’s a video. Enjoy!
Faithful readers of this blog (both of you) probably have noticed my love-hate relationship with genealogy. But after almost 20 years and way too much money, I think I’m calling it quits.
I am still stuck in Pennsylvania in the early to mid-1800’s. Every lead I get on that ever elusive “immigrant ancestor” just seems to fall away after more digging. Even more importantly, no one in my family has any desire to keep the research going.
But I did have some wonderful finds along the way. The time I found my oldest sister’s baby book in a box in our mother’s shed. It gave me the name (which I later confirmed via census records) of our paternal great grandfather, Samuel W. Campbell. The one and only Campbell DNA match, that gave me the next male Campbell in that line, James Campbell. Do you have any idea just how many James Campbell’s there are in that time and place? It’s maddening!
My favorite find was identifying my father’s first wife, Gertrude Mary (Trudie) Lyman. That was just some good detective work and lots of help from the wonderful folks on the Blair County (Pennsylvania) Genealogical Society.
So, for now, I have suspended my various genealogy and DNA service accounts. I have not removed my data from any of the services (Ancestry, My Heritage, GEDMatch, Family Tree DNA, etc.. etc..), but I am no longer paying for the services. Since my data (DNA and Family Trees) are still fully searchable there is a hope that down the road, someone, somewhere will make that connection that I can’t find. And maybe, just maybe, when I do finally retire, I will head up to Pennsylvania and do some hands-on research. You never know. But for now, I’m tired. And broke.
For anyone that would like to see my various family trees, compare YDna, mtDNA or atDNA, leave a comment and a way to connect with you and I’ll answer. You will also find my various social media links at the bottom of this and every post, as well as in the side bar. Twitter is best contact method after email.
I’ll leave you with End Of The Line by The Traveling Wilburys. And that’s what we want to become, The Traveling Campbells. In fact, the First Annual Campbell Christmas Vacation is in high planning mode as I type this. Well, not as I really type this, everyone else is still asleep. But you get the picture.
I’ve mentioned my father’s first wife, Trudie, before. It’s taken close to eight months of research and hard work but I am ready to close this door. (You can read the other posts here and here.)
As a quick recap, dad didn’t speak much about Trudie. In fact all I knew of her was her name. Even then, was Trudie her given name or a nickname? Doing searches in every genealogy database I had access to for both Trudie and Gertrude (hoping that was a good guess for a given name), and in all the pre World War II locations that I knew dad lived in, turned up next to nothing. The first link above gives more detail, but it wasn’t until I found the 1940 census records that things started to fall into place.
With a little luck, and some help from the Blair County, Pennsylvania Genealogical Society, I found the marriage license (that’s the second post above). All that was left, as far as unanswered questions, was what was the cause of death?
One of the resources I have used for many years is VitalChek. This organization has found birth and death certificates for many of my ancestors over the years. I hoped they could help me again.
I won’t go into all the problems that occured with this request. Just know that it took about two and a half months to get my request filled. It wasn’t VitalChek’s fault. They were helping me the entire time. The Vital Records folks in D.C. were the problem. But in the end, I got what I needed.
The cause of death is listed as Uremia, secondary to Nephritis. Basically, she died of kidney failure. Now I can close this line of inquiry and go back to my “regular” genealogy quests.
Several folks on other social media have questioned why I have spent the time and energy on researching someone that I’m not related to. In my mind it wasn’t about adding another branch to the family tree. Dad would not let my mother buy him a wedding ring. He wore Trudie’s ring until the day he lost it doing yard work. He and I (and I think my brother) spent hours going blade by blade of grass looking for that ring. We never found it. He never wore another ring either. If she meant that much to him, it was worth my meager time, energy and money.
I find it amusing at how many of my family birthdays seem to come in groups. I understand that there are only so many days in a year, so it’s probable that some birthdays will fall near each other. But as I posted before when my father and both of his parents birthdays fall within 3 days of each other. So here is the next “installment”.
First, is my maternal grandmother;
I spent many summer vacations at either her house, or a nearby aunt’s house, but I barely remember her. I was too busy playing with my cousins I guess.
Switching “families”, the next two are wifey’s parents.
My in-laws were every bit of parents to me as my parents were. They supported wifey and I every step of the way.
Full disclosure: We are now home safe and sound. The reason for the late post will be explained in a day or two. Let’s just say that British Airways and I are not on friendly terms right now.
No map today, you should know where we are by now! Day 7 was a no travel day. We took a nice city bus tour of the city of Edinburgh. Then it was up to the castle.
The castle is very imposing. It sits atop a rock that is eons old. There has been a royal castle at this location since the reign of David I in the 12th century. Archeological finds have dated human occupation on Castle Rock to the Iron Age in the second century BCE.
The view from the castle is quite spectacular.
Back in the 17th and 18th centuries, they would fire a canon everyday at 1300 (1 PM) so that folks could set their timepieces, but more importantly, so the ships could set navigation.
Alas, were not allowed to take photographs of the crown jewels nor the Stone of Scone. But it was amazing to view them.
After our visit to the castle, we had a free day to explore Edinburgh. Before we headed off to the Royal Mile to shop, we had to stop at the grass market area for lunch. The grass market was exactly what the name implies. It served as the city common area. Everything was done here centuries ago, the market, offical announcements, and even the hangings of those sentenced to die. Today, there is no longer a grass area, it’s been paved and it’s lined with shops and pubs.
After a very nice lunch (and local beer) we headed to Greyfriars Kirk. The church was originally started in 1602. We didn’t go into the building, but instead walked among the old cemetery.
I was looking for a particular tomb. This is said to be haunted! I’ll leave it to you to read about Bloody MacKenzie.
And no visit to Greyfriars is complete with a vist to the statue of “Greyfriars Bobby“.
I have to admit that as beautiful as the Royal Mile is, it has become a tourist trap. The majority of shops that claim “Authentic Highland Tartans” have the same mass produced crap. It took some doing to find a shop with quality product without having to go over to the “expensive” street. So I didn’t take any pictures of the buildings. Besides all you’d be able to see were the tourists anyway!
But I did find this:
As the saying goes, all good things must come to an end. As so we had to say goobye to Bonnie Scotland. Day 8 was an early morning cab ride to the airport and some interesting flights home. That will the subject of another post.
The traditional highland goodbye is “Hasten ye back!” And that we shall.
My apologies for the tardiness of this post. We did quite a bit of walking yesterday and I ended up in the bar later than usual. No real surprise there. Also our braw tour director does Ancestry research and several of us met with him to pick up some research tips.
I have an hour before breakfast so I will hopefully get this posted right away.
The day started off in a shambles. Our coach driver, Neil, was required by law to have the day off. Much like truckers in the USA can only drive for so many hours before they must stop, the same applies here.
The fill-in driver was over 30 minutes late. Poor Ian, our braw tour director, was beside himself. Ian called our two stops and got us rescheduled.
First stop for the day was Blair Castle. This castle was first built in the mid 13th century. And parts of that construction are still in use.
They a have a piper play every hour most afternoons on the grounds.
The castle has 30 rooms that you can visit on your self guided tour. As usual, there are muskets, bayonets and swords everywhere.
There are many red deer on the grounds as well. And it seems they like to mount them!
The Duke of Atholl is the person in Europe that has a standing private army, the Atholl Highlanders.
But for wifey and I, the best part was walking the grounds. We went first to Diana’s Grove (this is the Greek Goddess, not the late Princess. And no, Princess Diana is not buried here. And yes, someone asked if she was buried in the Grove.)
The best sidetrip was a visit to the ruined St. Bride’s Kirk. St. Bride is better known as Brigid. The Kirk, or church, was built around 1275.
From the castle to the distillery. I was looking forward to this visit as I have never heard of this brand of whisky. And now I now why. The majority of the whisky distilled here is used in blended whiskies. They only bottle 0.03% of the product as single malt, and it’s not exported. Hence, I’ve never heard of Blair Atholl.
Our tour guide, Tom, was very good.
But I will admit that I didn’t care for the whisky.
Random shot to prove the sun does shine on Scotland!
We ended the afternoon with some free time in the little town of Pitlochry.
Wifey was happy she finally got to wear her sunglasses
And that’s a wrap. Up next is Glamis Castle and St. Andrew’s.
We are at T minus 30 days for our long overdue trip to Scotland! I say it’s overdue because we’ve been trying to get there for about five years. Well, it’s finally happening.
That’s all for the travel plans, I’ll have more, hopefully when we’re there. The two issues that will make it difficult will be lack of internet connection and that I’m only bringing my tablet, not my laptop, so I may need Wifey’s help in transcribing stuff. You think my regular typing is bad, wait until you see if from a virtual keyboard!
Genealogy – specifically DNA. (Disclaimer: I am very new to this whole DNA stuff. My conclusions may be way off. Please correct anything in the comments.) I have posted about genealogy and DNA before, but this time I have some specifics.
Most of my testing has been done through Family Tree DNA (FTDNA from here on out). The main reason I used them instead of Ancestry (which I have also used), is that FTDNA does Y – DNA testing. For those that don’t know the difference, Y-DNA is a male only test. The Y (and X) chromosome are sex chromosomes. Men have one Y chromosome and one X chromosome, women have two X chromosomes. Each father passes an almost exact copy of his Y-DNA to his sons.
The other types of DNA testing that are common are Mitochondrial (mtDNA) and Autosomal (atDNA). I won’t go into specifics of each test, but everyone can do these types of tests. Ancestry does atDNA, and FTDNA calls their atDNA “Family Finder”. These kinds of tests look at genetically stored data that give you a greater sense of where your origins are. They can help you find cousins, half siblings (that maybe you didn’t about), and also help adoptees find birth parents. But are accurate to only five to seven generations back. Y-DNA and mtDNA can go back (generally) thousands of years.
But I’m interested in finding where my male line comes from. I have several goals in this endeavor;
Find the “Immigrant Ancestor”. Who, and maybe why, did they leave wherever they called home? And when?
Where did the ancestor come from? Family stories indicated Scotland. According to my dad, specifically Argyll. Of course, Argyll is a large area in the southeast part of Scotland. Not exactly a simple place.
Do we have any connection to older peoples living in whatever area I find?
Can we go beyond that time? Was it even possible since there wouldn’t be any written records.
I did my first Y-DNA test with FTDNA way back in 2008. More than 11 years ago now. The first test gave me a very generic Y-DNA Haplogroup of R-M269. Think of a haplogroup as a branch on a tree.
The R-M269 haplogroup is the most common group in Europe for males. It is estimated to have arisen about 11,000 BCE. And makes up a large part of the R1b main branch of the haplotree. The image below may help.
Starting near the top of the image, you’ll see the M269 subclade, just left of center in the red. Follow that straight down and near the bottom of the red go left to the big P312 in dark green with yellow letters. From there continue left to the light green with yellow letters L21. Now it gets a little harder. From L21, you go down and slightly right to DF13, then a little more right you’ll find Z39589. Almost there, don’t give up, as we zig just a tad right to Z251 and stop there, for now. My line continues down from here, but this tree doesn’t go that far.
About eight branches further down the tree you will, hopefully, find BY69143, just not on that image above. That’s as far as my DNA can be traced at the moment. It’s referred to a “Terminal SNP”. But it’s anything but terminal. In the less than 6 weeks since my last test has been completed, I have moved “downstream” two branches. It’s a constantly changing environment.
So, lets jump back up to my lists of goals. How does this DNA test help me? I was hoping to find a cousin with the Campbell surname that had some more of a paper trail than I have. The biggest problem that I have encountered in this genealogy quest, which I started back in 1999 before DNA tests were commercially available, is the fact that my father was an only child. That means I had no Campbell uncles. I knew his father’s name, but that was about all.
I was lucky that my dad’s mother had many pictures and notes from her late husband. And then just by chance I found my oldest sister’s baby book in a long-forgotten box at our mom’s house. In those pages I found my great-grandfather’s name. That allowed me to find him, and my grandfather and his siblings in census records in the correct area of Pennsylvania. But not the next generation. I had several leads on that generation, but I couldn’t nail it down. Basically, I was looking at two men, a James R. Campbell and a Richard Campbell. Each of those men had different fathers.
Enter DNA. My hope was that one of my grandfather’s siblings’ son’s (my great uncle’s) had done a DNA test, AND that we would match enough to be sure of our findings. That cousin hopefully also had a good paper trail to help me along. Yeah, it was pretty one sided at this point.
However, I do believe that any one named “Campbell” is deathly afraid of taking a DNA test! I had absolutely no matches with a Campbell surname. Nothing, not even a fourth or fifth cousin. I guess they were afraid of being charged with cattle theft or some such thing from medieval Scotland. Only thing left for me to do was to order a more advance test. And wait… Lots of waiting with this DNA stuff.
Out of nowhere I received an email one day. I did have a Campbell cousin that had completed a Y-DNA test. Not from a sibling of my grandfather not even my great-grandfather. But from a sibling of my great-great-grandfather. Just like that the problem of which man was my 2x great-grandfather was solved. James Richard Campbell was my line, and a different Richard Campbell (not the one I was also researching) was this cousin’s line.
This cousin had records too! He had lived in Pennsylvania before retiring here to Florida. He could back everything up with history! Needless to say, I commenced to doing the genealogy happy-dance (you don’t want to see that). Oh, this newly discovered 2x great was a junior. At least that takes some of the guess work out of his father’s name. But my cousin also had his information as well. James Richard Campbell, Sr. was quickly entered as 3x great-grandfather. Now, how to get that next generation?
Another great DNA site is GEDMatch. They don’t offer any DNA testing, you just upload your DNA data to the site. They have so many free and paid tools that will allow you to search their database of uploads for matches. You can do a wide one-to-many search or even compare two kits on a one-to-one basis. GEDMatch takes uploads of DNA data from several different DNA testing companies. You’re still limited by only being able to compare kits from folks that uploaded, and agreed to allow their kits to be searched, you can match folks that have tested at different companies. Ancestry and 23 and Me, do not allow the uploading of DNA to their databases. GEDMatch takes both of those company’s results and several others. By using my DNA, my older brother’s DNA, and this cousin’s DNA, we were able to find another cousin. This time way down in South Africa.
This cousin had the next generation. Once again, the unusual name and the senior/junior come into play. John Campbell. Really? Now there are two John Campbell’s to look for. A father and son. Out of what, maybe 10,000,000 listed in archives strewn all over the internet? Most old records don’t list things such as a senior or junior. Just the names. This new cousin claims to have a passenger list of when this Campbell family came over, but looking at the reference, I’m not positive about this claim. But that’s another job, and another post.
This gave me a partial answer to the first question. I now have two possibilities of the “Immigrant Ancestor”. It was either my newly discovered 3x great, or his father. The “two John’s”. If this is making your head spin, you can imagine how I was feeling. I put all this away for a bit to just look at DNA to see if I could get any answers to my goals.
All these Campbell’s do come from Scotland. The lead we have on John Sr., states he was born in 1745 in Perth, Scotland. Well, that’s not in Argyll on any map, in any time frame. Not a big deal, as the Campbell Clan is quite large, and has several branches. Maybe I am a descendant from one of the cadet branches.
Going back to FTDNA and the Campbell discussion group, I ask if there is a way via DNA to see if one belongs to the right haplogoup that indicates which, if any, Campbell one can trace back to. Sadly, it appears that I do not belong to the Argyll subclade (R-FGC10125), my path branches off right after the Z39589 subclade a couple of thousand years ago. Hey – not a problem. This just means that some ancestor in the way back past either swore an oath of loyalty to the clan chief, was absorbed into the clan (either peacefully or…), or maybe married into the clan and took the name. If I can go back to the mid 1700’s and still find Campbell in my direct line. I’m good with that.
So, if not Argyll, where does my line come from? I do have a DNA marker, S145/M529/L21. This marker, usually just listed as L21, is highly correlated with the geography of ancient Celts. In the words of Bill Murray “I’ve got that going for me.” Just where is the L21 most prevalent? Seems to be in area of Stirling and Falkirk, Scotland. Which is just southwest of Perth! Hey! I may be on to something here. It would appear to my untrained eye that my line stayed in the lowlands area and those with the Argyll marker continued westward across the island. But I’m just guessing here. Could be the other way around for all I know.
All in all, it means my Y-DNA Haplogroup is R1b1a1a2a1a2. At least that’s the last one I can find. I believe that stops at subclade R-P312, and there are 13 further mutations I have listed to get me to the R-BY69143 SNP.
It does appear that I am a Scot, as the top image says. I don’t have to go back 100 generations to find Scots roots. But I can, my DNA points to a Copper or Iron Age Scots ancestry. Wifey too has Scots heritage. Of course, I can’t test her Y-DNA (she doesn’t have any). Her brother has done the Ancestry test, but Ancestry doesn’t give raw data, only their visuals and estimates. Which leaves me unsure of their Y-DNA Haplogroup. Maybe one day I can afford to have him to the Big Y-700 at FTDNA. We’ll probably find out our tribes fought each other all the time!
In a way, this trip to Scotland will be a homecoming.
If you are using any of the DNA resources I’ve mentioned and wish to contact me about those sites, please use the links below to contact me on social media (Twitter works best), or leave a comment. I would be very happy to see if there is anything we can do to help each other!
I’m guessing that this was quite the week back in the day.
Yesterday would have been my paternal grandmother’s 134th birthday. Josephine “Nanny” Bodle was born 27 March 1885. Nanny lived with us for most of my childhood. She is where I get my love of cooking. She ran her own BBQ resturant in Altoona, Pennsylvania.
Today is my father’s birthday, Donald Campbell would have been 107. Dad was born 28 March 1912. He was a pretty remarkable guy. We had our differences, but then what kid doesn’t have issues with their parents at some point?
And then to complete the trifecta, my paternal grandfather’s 135th birthday would have been on Sunday. Herbert J. Campbell born 31 March 1884, and died 5 February 1919, a victim of the flu pandemic.
I can only imagine how this week was celebrated in my Campbell ancestor’s house. I love the convergence of my father and his parents birthdays all together in one week.
And a Happy Birthday to anyone that has a birthday this week! You’re in good company.
I have been working very hard on my genealogy again. While I do have a very good lead on that ever elusive “immigrant ancestor”, I have still been looking for more information on my father’s first wife.
I have now proven that the lovely lady I mentioned in this post, is in fact Trudie. I used Facebook, of all things to get the needed info.
Using the Blair County, Pennsylvania, Genealogy Society Facebook page, I found the email for their research assistant, Patti. She was ever so helpful. For a small donation to the society, she found Don & Trudie’s marriage documents.
Not only did she find the certificate, she found the application as well.
Now being the nosey guy that I am, I couldn’t help but wonder where did the ceremony take place? Was it in a church, the city office, where? The first step was to figure out who the Thos. W. Kelley was that performed the actual ceremony was. My oldest sister remembers dad saying that Trudie was Catholic. My new friend Patti was able to locate a Father Thomas W. Kelley that was listed in several other marriages at St. Therese’s Catholic church in Altoona. And on the scan of the city record book, it lists Fr. Kelley as “Priest”.
Now that I knew they were married in the Catholic tradition, if not in a Catholic church building, a big question popped into my pointy head. Did my dad have to convert or at least sign a statement of some kind that he would convert to Catholisim? This is a very common thing with many of the world’s religions.
So, with the help of my other friend, Google, I was able to locate St. Therese’s church in Altoona. They don’t have a website, but they do have an email. After much pondering, moreover what to ask, than if I should even send an email, I sent an email asking if they had any records of the marriage and if my dad had to make any kind of conversion promise.
Lo and behold, this was the answer I received;
Dear Mr. Campbell, The marriage of Donald Sherwood Campbell and Mary Gertrude Lyman took place at St. Therese Parish, whether in the Church or at the Rectory is unknown. Mary was a member of St. Leo’s Parish, and received the permission from Fr. O’Connell for the marriage to take place at St. Therese. The records shows that the couple received a dispensation for Mixed Religion. And that indicates that Donald was still a Protestant at the time of the wedding. Mary would have signed a document promising to raise any children Catholic to the best of their ability and that this marriage would not endanger her faith. Father Kelley would have informed Donald that Mary made these promises. During the day of Bishop Guilfoyle, he was strict about non-Catholics marrying Catholics wanting the non-Catholics to convert. However the Bishop seems to have signed the dispensation. Documents are sparse. We have only the granted dispensations and the record in the registry. I hope this helps. If Donald became Catholic it was after his marriage.
Sincerely, Fr. D. Timothy Grimme Pastor
Pretty cool. I could cross this off my genealogical to-do list. The next step in my search on Trudie is to find a cause of death. I have requested a death certificate from the folks in Washington, D.C. but have not received anything back.
It is interesting that her name is listed as Mary Gertrude. I understand the use of Mary, as it is normal, if not required, to use a saint’s name in the Catholic tradition. The odd thing is that every other record I have of her lists her as Gertrude M., the names are reversed. Even in early records such as the 1920 census when she’s still with her parents, she’s listed as Gertrude. Oh well. I’ve seen odder things.
I really do wish I had a date for that picture. Love the pencil thin mustache my dad’s sporting!